A day ago Treasurer Joe Hockey drew a culinary line in the sand on the fraught issue of whether to provide assistance to struggling companies like SPC Ardmona or Qantas.
He made a big point about small business saying that the proverbial Abdul the kebab maker from Parramatta doesn't come looking for a handout when he wants a new oven.
Business editor Peter Ryan can't resist a lunchtime challenge.
He found a real life Abdul the kebab maker in Sydney who agrees with the Treasurer.
Listen to the story here.